Gutter Talk

Someone recently wrote in and asked what kind of fasteners should be used with copper gutters. The writer noted they had heard that using dissimilar metals together could cause corrosion.

They were absolutely right. Experts tell us that electrolytic corrosion (electrolysis) occurs when dissimilar metals are in contact in the presence of any water or moisture (we are talking about gutters here, after all) containing very small amounts of acid. They say dissimilar metals set up a galvanic action that results in the deterioration of one of them. The following is a list of familiar metals with numbers conforming to a galvanic “scale.” When you read them it becomes readily apparent what kind of fasteners will work with copper gutters and which will not.

When any two metals in this list are in contact, with an electrolytic present, the one with the lower number is corroded. The galvanic action tends to increase as the metals are farther apart in the galvanic scales. However, that is not always the case. In certain cases, one metal immediately following another may be very corrosive. In the case of brass, copper, bronze and stainless steel 300 Series, there appears to be little or no corrosion among them.

THE GALVANIC SERIES

1. Aluminum 7. Tin
2. Zinc 8. Lead
3. Steel 9. Brass
4. Iron 10. Copper
5. Nickel 11. Bronze
6. StainlessSteel400Series 12. StainlessSteel300Series

Be careful if a contractor or roofer has installed downspouts to flush out onto your upper roof, because the effects may be obvious. Debris, mud, and rust are flushed out from the down spout and may stain the roof. And the water flowing from the downspout may erode the roof granules of a shingle roof, damaging the shingles and shortening the life of the roof.

There are two solutions to this problem. One, have the upper story downspouts be extended to the ground. This can be more expensive than draining onto your roof. Just make certain there is a safe area to drain the water without doing damage to the home, concrete areas and landscape.

Some areas of the upper gutters may not be accessible to drain directly onto the ground. Another solution is to have the upper down spout tie in directly into the lower gutter system.

Gutters should extend past the roof line a couple of inches to catch the rain water coming off the edge of the roof instead of running down the side of your home.

If you have this problem it may be because the gutter is lined up with the roof line. Water then tends to flow over the gutter end cap, down the gutters, to the fascia and soffit with possible water damage as a result.

More often than not, the gutters are not positioned properly at the ends of the run. Call the installer have him correct the problem, making sure to position the gutters to go past the roof line.

When you have new gutter installed always think about the weather you can expect to face. For warmer climates your gutter installer can space gutter hangers supporting your gutters at a spacing of thirty-six inches. But in climates that get a good amount of snowfall each winter, your gutter hangers should be spaced every 18 inches so that they are able to carry the weight of the heavier and more frequent snowfalls. It may cost you a little bit more but it can be an important deterrent to sagging, defective gutters later on.
If you’re having a local gutter installer check out your gutter system for the winter, you may want to investigate whether you need snow guards for your roof as well. Snow guards are designed to prevent snow slides. They hold the snow evenly over the entire roof allowing it to melt gradually and drain off into gutters and leaders. If you are concerned about snow sliding off your roof over your main entranceway, backyard patio doors and side entrances, ask your contractor about snow guards. You can get them for just about any roofing material.

Each of us is always looking for ways to judge the quality of a product before we purchase it. And other than word of mouth, we are reliant on so-called home improvement experts to tell us what they think are the best products in the marketplace. Unfortunately, even some of the best known experts have been paid to tout the merits of home improvement products or to feature them on their websites or on their programs.
Nonetheless, there are a handful of resources that are usually trustworthy to provide an honest assessment of home improvement products and their suppliers—including gutters.
The Better Business Bureau in your market area probably has rated gutter installers with the best rating being an A Plus. And the Good Housekeeping Institute which awards the Good Housekeeping Seal and Consumer Reports—both test and rate leaf protection systems. If you’re curious how the leaf protection system you’re considering stacks up, check in with Good Housekeeping and Consumer Reports to get their input.

We always like to hear from you about new gutter products in the marketplace. And while we are not, and don’t plan to be a place where people can complain or criticize, it’s good for us to know your feelings about certain products. If you’ve liked a product, we certainly like to hear why.
And if we do hear from you, we certainly hope you are a homeowner sharing an experience. We’ve heard that manufacturers have posed as homeowners and used other blogs and home improvement websites to bash competitive products. Be assured we shall do everything we can to make sure this will not happen on our website.

It’s that time of year again when many homeowners are considering whether their rain gutters can stand up to another winter. Some will try to get through another winter without leaks and drainage problems. Others will be contacting gutter and leaf protection system contractors to replace gutters now before problems can start.
There is a wide variety of services out there and you have every right to expect the highest level of service quality when you go looking for a contractor. Here’s what you should expect when you make your calls to hire a contractor:

1. Never, ever let a contractor give you a drive by estimate.
2. Have the contractor or his salesperson visit your home
3. Make sure they listen to your concerns first before they begin a sales pitch
4. Make sure they do a walk around to investigate your gutters and any drainage issues you may have
5. A good contractor will discuss your concerns and what he finds as well. Some contractors will even take pictures of your home and download them to a computer screen, first, so you can clearly see any problems and, second, to bring them back to their installation team so it knows what equipment and materials it will need should you award them the contract.
6. A good contractor will provide you with an explanation and a drawing of what he plans to do involving either replacement gutters or repairs.
7. Make sure they show you the actual product they plan to install—gutter, downspout and brackets.
8. Finally, the contractor should provide you with a written estimate of how much the job will cost and what it will entail—right there.

Price is a very subjective topic. Remember, you get what you pay for. And every job is different. Your neighbor may tell you what he or she paid but the work may differ greatly from what you need and the product you have selected. Hooded leaf protection systems cost more than standard gutters. And even gutters come at different levels of quality and price. Your neighbor may simply have needed gutters replaced with no additional concerns. Another neighbor might have had rotting fascia that had to be replaced, adding to the cost of the job.
It’s a lot to consider, right? Good luck.

We are a long way from winter but one of the most common problems we hear about every year is ice damming or icicles brought on when it snows.  Contrary to popular opinion, gutters do not cause ice dams. But an ice dam can extend from the edge of the roof into a gutter under certain weather conditions. And if the gutter’s already clogged with leaves and debris, you may have an issue.

The real cause of ice damming is probably a warm sunny winter day when the runoff water from melting snow runs down to the edge of the roof where it refreezes, forming an ice dam or ridge of ice. As more snow melts end becomes water, it runs down the roof and the ice dam grows, sometimes creating icicles.

What causes ice dams? Poor attic insulation or air leaks inside the home that allows warm air to get into the attic. The warm air rises and raises the temperature of the underside of the roof, making the snow melt. The melted snow runs down the warmed roof until it reaches the roof overhang that is not warm and is the same temperature as the outside air—and there it freezes, creating the ridge or ice dam. Eventually the runoff water can back up under the shingles or through cracks in the roof.

What can you do to stop it? It depends on what’s causing the underside of the roof to warm up. This is a blog and we don’t want to spend a lot of time giving an explanation. But either more insulation or more ventilation can help prevent heat buildup. You’re probably going to need a professional to tell you what’s causing the problem and what’s required in terms of insulation or venting changes to fix it.

Some people suggest roof mounted heating cables to form a path for the melted snow to travel through an ice dam. But you’ve got to remember to turn them on and then can’t leave them running all the time or they might short out. And if the electrical power goes in a storm, you may be out of luck.

Some people suggest a snow rake to remove the rooftop snow and slow down the ice dam growth. Others suggest using a hose to cut channels through the ice dam. But we don’t recommend people getting up on ladders in the winter to rake off or hose down the roof. And besides, both would only be temporary solutions.  The real reason is heat buildup under the roof and that has to be corrected to try to stop the recurring problem.

 You may wish to contact an energy specialist who can do an evaluation using diagnostic equipment to isolate the problem. You’ll not only find out where the problem is on your roof but you’ll also probably learn if other parts of your home are leaking hot air as well.

As you can imagine, we are always getting emails from manufacturers and homeowners telling us about new products on the market. Somebody always has a new idea to make things “simpler.”  No quarrel with coming up with ideas to do that. But a lot of the ideas seem more focused on how to make a buck than how to solve a problem. Lately we’ve seen information or requests about two-story downspouts that can be detached for cleaning by the homeowner, a gutter system that is wider and looks a little different than the conventional k-style for greater capacity, a request for a hinged gutter endcap to facilitate cleaning, etc., etc.

We guess the detachable downspout was to save do-it-yourselfers from climbing up ladders to clean out gutters and the hinged end cap to be able to flush water into the gutter to remove debris. Interesting ideas, both with  seeming advantages and complications as well.

The larger gutter–somewhere between a 5″ and 6″ k-style but with a slightly different look–also sounded interesting if you’re trying to get more water off of your roof faster. 

New ideas can ge good. But homeowners always have to consider not only whether the idea is a good one but can the company that introduces the new “idea” stand behind it. The fact of the matter is that there are only a handful of large gutter suppliers in the U.S. Most are small, local suppliers. And the new idea guys may be working out of a garage and having the product built by someone else.

If you’re going to try a new product, ask who makes it, how long they’ve been around and whether there are airtight guarantees from the manufacturer and the installer that the product can be replaced if necessary.